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Red Dwarf - Series VIII DVD review

For almost three and a half years Grant Naylor Productions have been slowly but surely releasing every series of their show Red Dwarf. During that period of time the quality of these releases have gone from the excellent to the utterly sublime. Now, as we see the release of Series VIII next Monday, we also see the end of the most consistently brilliant DVD sets to ever be released.

It's easy with a review such as this to get too wrapped up in reviewing the extras and never really take time out to re-evaluate the main feature of the set. In this case it's even harder for me to give the main feature the time of day because, well, I really dislike Series VIII of Red Dwarf. I've been of this opinion ever since it aired so it's hard for me to sit back and re-evaluate it. I gave it a go, though.

But, after re-watching the series, I'm afraid I'm going to stand by my original assessment. To my eyes, it's one of the biggest disappointments in British TV *ever*. And I'm not buying the old "oh, but it's better than anything on TV at the moment" argument, either, because it clearly isn't. To me, it feels a like a *totally* different show to the one I know and love from series 1 to VI. The characters are distorted, the performances have lost all their subtly, the new supporting characters are incredibly weak, the new CG is awful (yet the remaining model work is excellent, it has to be said) and the stories are, in the main, contrived and uninteresting. This may seem like needless negativity in what should be a positive piece, but this is how I view series VIII, and the passage of time has done little to change that.

This is all, of course, IMHO. And you all know this. I just wanted to make it clear I did give it all another shot, and my opinion stays unchanged. Having said that, Cassandra's quite good, isn't it? And, as you'll see later, viewing Back in the Red and Pete as complete episodes helps a *hell* of a lot. Still, I know a great deal of people out there love this series, so I'll reign in my bias from now on.

Anyway, with that painful revaluation out of the way, I think it'll be a good idea for me to nestle into the warm soft centre of the DVD - the extras.

Discs 1 & 2

Menus

As always, the first thing that really hits you in the face when you first start the DVD is the menus. The VIII menus are special in that they've been created for just one series (previous 'templates' have served 2 or 3 series at a time), which is probably indicative of an increase in budget and perhaps the desire to go out on a very high note. And they are VERY gorgeous. Especially impressive is The Brig Tower and the inspired cutaway to the Skutter making it's way across the bridge (watch out for him if you're feeling eggy). Once again, there's lovely use of metaphors, with episodes and scenes represented as files and notes in the Captain's office - complete with hilarious 'scary' music played when the file stack turns. I'm scared!

They're without doubt the most polished looking menus of the lot, helped considerably by the lovely stylised pop-ups when you select an item on Disk 3's menu. If I was to make criticisms it would be that some of the 'walk-throughs' to separate sections do take a little too long at times (disk 3 especially) and the looping Holly tracks do annoy after a while - I'm a big fan of loop friendly menus, and repeated dialogue doesn't really lend itself to that. But, other than that, lovely.

Xtended

The extended and cut together versions of Back in the Red and Pete do their best to fill the Identity Within and Fan Film sized holes left after series VII, and they're certainly very interesting extras. They're FAR easier to watch than their multiple part cousins and the whole story flows so much better in each. Definitely worth doing, so much so that there's no reason why you'd ever need to watch the other versions ever again.

Commentaries

All pretty standard, really, but entertaining non-the-less. The addition of Mac and Norman is very welcome indeed (anything that detracts from Craig Charles has to be good) and despite the larger numbers, it all feels very nicely balanced. In fact, the whole thing seems to flow so much better than previous commentaries, with a thankful lack of people shouting over each other with "HAM" and "OOOH, LUNCHBOX" and such like. I still think it's worth saying that it's a massive shame Ed Bye or Doug Naylor didn't offer their services to the commentaries, especially as at one point Ed Bye walks into the commentary booth! Tease!

Comedy Connections

It makes perfect sense to include this BBC program on the DVD, and I'm jolly glad it's here as it includes the most special of rarities: a Rob Grant interview. The premise of Comedy Connections is to study the cast and crew involved in a given show, and detail their past work, how they became involved in the show and finally where they eventually moved on to. It's a great premise, and throws up some excellent archive clips. The show is still running to this day (series four is currently airing) yet it still has the same fatal flaw: it's too short.

Disc 3

Someone get me a brandy!

Documentary - The Tank

The jewel in the crown. The piece de resistance. The good bit. Or, more specifically, the documentary. Hello!

If you've seen the others, then this is pretty much business as usual. Which, as you should know, is a very very good thing. The usual frankness and honestly is present, and it serves as a brilliant record of the series from all manner of angles. I yearn for series 1 and 2 to get the same treatment at one point.

What really sticks out for me is the feeling that everyone seemed to adore this series (quite a contrast to some of the comments made against VII in the last docco), apart from perhaps Norman who picks up on some very astute points about how the show changed from when he was last in it - and I think I detected a hint of disappointment in his voice. It's obvious what era of Dwarf he prefers. It was good that Doug made a comment about how the Blue Midget dance was reviled online, too, which he seems genuinely affronted by.

As usual, the selection of clips is really spot on. They do the job of punctuating various points very well, and we still have the ever present odd unseen clip from the rushes (the highlight of which has to be, ironically, the clips of Danny and Charles Augins rehearsing and shooting the Blue Midget dance). It was also nice to have a brief glance at the second, and Deathless, ending to Only the Good... Keep it *dark*.

Deleted Scenes

Always one of the best features on the DVD, due to the 'NEW DWARF!' factor. This time we have 1 hour and 7 minutes of the buggers! Although, as usual, a good chunk of that is previously seen stuff which book-end the deleted bits. Still, there's some good stuff here and, as with series VII, things I wish hadn't been cut but mostly it's stuff I'm glad to see was cut. The two most notable things here and the original shoots from Back in the Red (Lister's scenes in the old bunk room are nostalgia-tastic, especially his little moment with McCartney) and the alternative ending to Only the Good... in which Rimmer and the rest manage to halt the virus and reclaim Red Dwarf. On reflection, I'm please they didn't use this ending, as it just didn't seem to work very well. It just seemed a tad too cosy and unrealistic. Again, I'll say the darker ending scene in the Documentary is the one they should have gone with, though.

Bill Pearson Model Maker Video

This is a very nice and informative presentation (comprising of stills and film clips), narrated by the quite excellently Scottish, Bill Pearson. The pictures themselves consist of some gorgeous shots of props, models and sets he designed and built from series IV onwards - the highlight being the utterly lovely looking Landing Bay set from series VIII. The commentary itself is interesting and occasionally amusing ("it was handematically launched, in other words Steve Begg threw it"), but the sound quality is a bit dodgy and echoy at times. At the end he mentions how he built a Starbug as a prize for a major TV game show (Whatever You Want, as it happens) and I WANT ONE.

Music Cues

It's incredibly sad to see this once great extra reduced to having nothing to offer but the main themes and two versions of that bloody Blue Midget dance. Sad, but completely unavoidable as series VIII's (rather good, it has to be said) music was taken almost entirely from library.

Smeg Ups

As far as I can tell, these comprise totally of the Smeg Ups seen on the tail end of the VHS releases. Nothing new but there's nothing missing. In fact, these are among the most amusing Smeg Ups ever. You get a real feeling that the whole cast *really* got along well, and it shines through here.

Trailers

These are just fantastic - easily the best set of trailers ever, so I'll break it on down for you.

Star Wars: The trailer which did the seemingly impossible... It made series VIII look good! (gah - sorry - I said I wouldn't do that, didn't I?). Previously I'd only seen a bootlegged copy floating about on the Net, so it's nice to see it in crystal clear quality here. And I maintain that the 'March' music used for this trailer and some of the series, is flipping excellent.

TV Spot: Even *more* astonishingly, we have a TV spot that wasn't culled from some fan's nth generation VHS recording. This particular trailer was for Back in the Red Part 2 and featured the oldish BBC style of trailing shows, before the REDNESS invaded. I can only assume either the other episodes were really badly trailed, or they've been lost.

PBS Idents: I didn't really realise the significance of these until I actually watched them. But, essentially, what you have here is 10 minutes of brand new Dwarf! Brand new! And, what makes it even better, is that it's actually really good. It's basically a montage of specially recorded pledge requests for various UB PBS stations, including some brilliant Kryten and Rimmer set-pieces. However, the highlight has to be at the end when we see a quick cutting montage of the crew performing idents for the numerous PBS regions. Great fun.

CIN: This is a mildly amusing skit from Children in Need (broadcast in 1998 - prior to series VIII) and, as with the PSB sketches, take place in the new Blue Midget set with a fully hologrammed Rimmer. A nice addition and yet another sign that series VIII really was quite well publicised before its broadcast.

Radio Sketch

This is a sketch from the fantastic Dave Hollins: Space Adventurer - as heard in the Grant Naylor radio series Son of Cliché. This clip completes the entire set (spread out over 4 DVDs) and a fantastic replacement for the Talking Book Chapters of the earlier releases. For extra observipoints, see if you can spot all the jokes they ended up using in Dwarf.

Incidentally, those of you who have never heard Son of Cliché or Cliché should get it. By any means possible. Or, preferably, the BBC should bloody well release it.

Music Featurette - Fight

You know the drill. Take a bit of music, take some clips, mix 'em together and what have you got? Well, 3 minutes of pretty inoffensive filler, as it happens. The subject is fighting, and the resulting slapstick moments certainly lend themselves well to something like this. Result: Slapstick o' humour set to a dodgy cover of Kung Foo Fighting and a message of PEACE at the end.

Raw Effects Footage

A large chunk of fascination, here. In fact two, differently flavoured, chunks; namely model work and CG. In a way, it's a crying shame to see how much the model work has decreased since its hayday. In fact, the model shots had long since become trademarks of the series and I'm still not entirely clear quite why they needed to take the CG route for series VIII. Obviously there's certain effects they needed CG for, but the elongating and and CGing of Red Dwarf is completely beyond me. Especially when they had model shots in the can from previous series. Anyway, that's besides the point, now. The model shots seen here are gorgeous as ever and it's interesting to see the various stages of the CG development, too. So it's a fascinating feature, as ever, but I do miss the good old days of 20 minutes of pure, unadulterated model shot heaven that this feature used to offer so readily.

Gallery

Absolutely *tonnes* of pictures here, all of the usual types. Production shots, behind the scenes, story boards (some pretty excellent storyboards, in fact) instant snap shots and video covers from around the world. It's good to see they're displayed in a nice big frame and with minimal cutting off round the edges. At this point it's worth pointing out that some DVDs would settle for a gallery a quarter the size of this, and NOTHING else, as part of their extras package. We are lucky.

Storyboard Sequences

Three scenes (the Starbug Landing Bay crash and the Blue Midget dance from BITR and the introduction of Pete the Dino in Pete) shown in their finalised and storyboarded version, side-by-side. It's a nice feature, and interesting to see in how much detail each shot is planned. Plus, you can never beat a good bit of artwork to get your juices flowing. Shame that the last two scenes are actually some of the most abominable stuff from VIII (and again, I'm sorry but I couldn't help myself).

And finally...

The series itself may be the wrong side of iffy, but the extras remain fascinating, informative and in sufficient quantity to make this DVD worth buying for even the series' most hardened critics. It's the perfect send off for what is one of the best DVD treatments a TV show has ever received.

4 Stars

About this entry


Comments

This is our 100th entry, y'know...

By Cappsy
March 23, 2006 @ 12:20 am

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Depends where you're looking. It was the 107th entered on the system, and it's definately not the 100th published. It's just currently the 100th record in the database.

Sorry to disappoint ;)

By Kirk
March 23, 2006 @ 2:23 am

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I did me sums wrong. Arse.

By Cappsy
March 23, 2006 @ 2:55 pm

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Speaking of Red Dwarf, I was watching the Bodysnatchers extras, and noticed something...

If you check out Ed Bye's promotional trailers for Red Dwarf Remastered, you'll notice that the "after" version of Lister's biking to the bunk room (in the Balance of Power clip) has new moving stars and nebulae added outside the window, until Lister says "lights" and the stuff outside the window disappears, as if a result of the contrast with the lit room.

However - check it with the final remastered version of Balance of Power, and you'll see that the window has been left as per the unremastered episode! I wonder why this isn't mentioned on the "what's different?" text track!

By Arthur Ascii
February 13, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

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FWIW, yes - if anyone *has* to talk about Dwarf here, then you can use this thread. It's when people keep derailing other threads that I get annoyed.

By John Hoare
February 13, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

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The Simpsons Movie was just another excuse to squeeze more profit out of a dying franchise. Maybe the next film should be called The $impsons Movie: Show Me the Money. And the fact that they would release two different dubs of the film (the Spider Pig / Trouser Pig debacle) proves they're expecting everybody to buy two copies for the purposes of completion. And which one is meant to be cannon? There's no way to know. Two big thumbs down.

By Phil Reed
February 14, 2008 @ 12:23 pm

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Wow, I used to write things.

By Jonathan Capps
February 15, 2008 @ 6:08 am

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> if anyone *has* to talk about Dwarf here, then you can use this thread

Feel free to post the observation on Ganymede & Titan, as I'm genuinely interested in what people might think about this. I'm not sure what Phil Reed's getting at but you can check the difference between the Ed Bye Promo and Balance of Power Remastered yourself - it's not a nonsense post or some kind of daft speculation like those things he listed. I don't have an opinion on the matter, just thought it was interesting, that's all. The difference between the two bike clips on the Promo are so significant that you can't miss the lack of window detailing in that part of the episode when it happens. It's the thing that in the Promo makes the "lights" change more dramatic. Question is - what happened between the Promo and the episode? Did it fall off in the edit?

By Arthur Ascii
February 15, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

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>I'm not sure what Phil Reed's getting at

There was a Simpsons movie thread that got hijacked by nonsense Red Dwarf chat...John recently closed it.

This was my cute way of injecting nonsense Simpsons movie crap into a Red Dwarf thread, thus completing the circle.

Not a shot at you, bud. Never fear.

By Phil Reed
February 15, 2008 @ 7:17 pm

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I thought the Simpsons Movie thread had already completed its own circle by becoming about Trouser Pig? The Red Dwarf bit didn't derail it - the Trouser Pig nonsense did. In any case it never became properly about the Simpsons Movie. A strange thread that one.

> Not a shot at you, bud. Never fear.

Not one jot of a problem. But I hope someone somewhere sometime notices the difference between the Remastered Promo and the actual moment in the Balance of Power episode. Which might suggest that the Promo and the Episodes were remastered independently, and which might somewhere sometime be an interesting subject of conversation. Otherwise, for example, we wouldn't be talking about the content of my post itself and might just be repeating the gist of the Simpsons Movie Thread Debacle as it's called. Or something.

By Arthur Ascii
February 16, 2008 @ 7:04 pm

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Why not post this to G&T or the RD webboard?

By Andrew
February 16, 2008 @ 8:58 pm

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>Why not post this to G&T or the RD webboard?

Yes, honestly, I don't personally mind this discussion being on NTS, but you might find you get a larger and more enthusiastic response from the guys who hang around G+T. Also, if you're keen-eyed enough to pick up on something like that, you'll probably enjoy a lot of what that site has to offer. It's not all about foul language, who John would like to screw, and foaming twats.

MOST of it is.

...but not all.

By Phil Reed
February 16, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

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> which one is meant to be cannon?

It's not a question of whether one or the other is more "canon"; it's just a matter of wanting the version one saw initially on the basis that it feels more authentic. It's really difficult to explain because it is relatively minor, not at all like the Star Wars SE meddlings. Think of it more along the lines of Gromit's birthday card chiming "for he's a jolly good fellow" rather than "happy birthday to you" on The Wrong Trousers DVD. Nothing wrong with it in principle, but it just settles wrong when you're familiar with a particular version.

By Keith
February 22, 2008 @ 10:05 pm

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It was the stupidest redub ever and ranks up there with "Boss Cat" as the most misguided alteration for UK audiences. Don't be surprised if you never hear your precious version ever again - I suspect Fox are keen to draw a line under it as a big mistake they should never have entertained.

By Jay
February 23, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

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Is anyone here able to fathom this one out? It's one for the Red Dwarf fans, it says: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sGC4orpInW8

By Jay
February 23, 2008 @ 8:21 pm

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> Don't be surprised if you never hear your precious version ever again

No need to be so smug about it.

> It's one for the Red Dwarf fans, it says: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sGC4orpInW8

That's very strange. Does "skutter" have a meaning I don't know about? I've never known it in any context other than Red Dwarf.

By Keith
February 24, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

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Jay - I don't know who you are, but fuck off.

By Ian Symes
February 24, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

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I can't believe you made a Youtube account just to post that.

By Seb
February 24, 2008 @ 6:34 pm

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>Think of it more along the lines of Gromit's birthday card chiming "for he's a jolly good fellow" rather than "happy birthday to you" on The Wrong Trousers DVD.

That's a good point of comparison, except that you end up hitting a wall when you take into account the fact that Spider Pig was never actually redubbed to Trouser Pig.

Small point of contention, I know. Call me a nit-picker.

By Phil Reed
February 24, 2008 @ 6:49 pm

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Thanks Ian!

Seb: I didn't. It's quite easy to do a search on youtube these days, then hit "arrange by date" to get the most recent ones first. But thanks as well, you're right up there with Ian for me, already.

Any other questions?

By Jay
February 24, 2008 @ 8:25 pm

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Anyone care to enlighten me as to what that video was? It's been removed due to some terms of use violation.

By Simon T
February 26, 2008 @ 12:05 am

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Some porn, where one of the women says "you dirty little scutter".

By Ian Symes
February 26, 2008 @ 9:31 am

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What was the catalyst for the Red Dwarf reference though?

By Simon T
February 26, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

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> Spider Pig was never actually redubbed to Trouser Pig.

This is a bit unfair. Series VII and VIII I will tend to say "never happened" because I feel they damage what came before, but was Trouser Pig really that much of an affront to you? I prefer Trouser Pig but either way I don't feel one or the other should be removed from continuity, until one day Spider Pig gets its own animated series or something. Which, by the way, I also think Trouser Pig would make a better concept for.

KNOCK KNOCK IT'S TROUSER PIG! Probably have to work out the Spike Milligan rights though.

By Simon T
February 26, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

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> Series VII and VIII

I obviously mean "of Red Dwarf" and not "of the Simpsons". This is a Red Dwarf thread!

By Simon T
February 26, 2008 @ 11:00 pm

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Unfortunately, it turns out this is crapper at solving the argument than you'd expect:

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22spider-pig%22&word2=%22trouser-pig%22

I mean what OTHER USE does googlefight have?

By Arthur Ascii
February 28, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

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How about this?

By Ian Symes
February 28, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

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That's called "pwning" in the business.

Which... I don't know... this could get a bit silly: http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pwned&word2=owned

"pwned" does pretty well for itself, but is still slaughtered to buggery by the slightly more ubiquitous "owned", there. Take into account the few several hundred years advantage favouring the latter word though. I think it won't be long before "pwned" gets American Presidency. (I'm drunk.)

Googlefight still isn't accurate though. Just searching for "Trouser Pig" doesn't throw up 0 results. It throws up 6. And they're not all noisetosignal, either. I suspect Trouser Pig will have his own what's that called - supremacy thing, one day. Like Crazy Frog. And we'll have been here at the start!

Do keep checking this out to see if it happens: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22trouser+pig%22&btnG=Search&meta=

By Arthur Ascii
February 28, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

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PS - I'm quite astonished by the person doing the "trouser pig" song here:

http://nohomers.net/showthread.php?t=59393&page=4

Do you reckon they read this site or had their own epiphany separately? They don't feature "Red Dwarf" in their profile of "likes".

By Arthur Ascii
February 28, 2008 @ 9:40 pm

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This isn't a Red Dwarf site.

By Andrew
February 29, 2008 @ 1:23 am

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Sorry. Was drunken.

By Arthur Ascii
February 29, 2008 @ 2:04 pm

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i heart trouser p.

By §
March 03, 2008 @ 7:30 pm

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trouser pig, trouser pig,
does whadever a trouser pig,
yes he does!
oh my god!
he's a fukeing trouser pig!
OH JESUS!
He is a touser piiiiiiiig!!!!!

Your turn for a version of it.

By §
March 03, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

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Tell you what though beatle peekles: I am torn between which is cuter out of Trouser Pig and Pocoyo. Give me Trouser Pig in Bojangles Baggy Pants tripping over and tumbling about and I'd definitely take that. Somebody make this animation!

By §
March 03, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

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Dave edits Dwarf really strangely to get them to fit on. I saw Bodyswap recently and they'd taken out the "Go ahead! Punks make my day!" bit in the Blue Midget / Starbug chase. It just cut from "what if he's not bluffing?" to Rimmered Lister saying "SMEG!"

Any other weird edits you've noticed to fit Dwarf on Dave?

By Taunton
March 06, 2008 @ 12:53 pm

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I hear they changed Talkie Toaster to Talkie Trouser. Can anyone confirm?

By Phil Reed
March 06, 2008 @ 1:03 pm

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> Can anyone confirm?

Dave edit bits out of Red Dwarf but haven't made any "remastered" style changes or whatever you want to call that.

By Keith
March 06, 2008 @ 4:13 pm

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> Rimmered Lister

This sounds rude.

> fit Dwarf on Dave

So does this.

By Keith
March 06, 2008 @ 4:23 pm

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Red Dwarf has a 40 minute slot on Dave, so the edits aren't for time reasons.

By Jonathan Capps
March 06, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

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They used the old edit for Psirens a while a go, with the "she's not jailbait" line cut out. They've edited several episodes; the one from Bodyswap was a strange one, as the exchange between Starbug and Blue Midget made little sense as a result. If it wasn't for time reasons I can only presume that they had a problem with the way the muskett was being aimed at that moment. Was Kryten's "naturally I will commit suicide immediately" line cut out of Polymorph? If not then I'm baffled by the Bodyswap edit.

By Taunton
March 07, 2008 @ 2:27 pm

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> They used the old edit for Psirens a while a go

That's Gunmen of the Apocalypse.

By Andrew
March 07, 2008 @ 10:08 pm

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So. Im Germany we are singing:

Superhosen, Superhosen
überschreitet, was auch immer ein hosen ist,
was das cunt!
OH- mein Jesus
bin ich nie dieser weit weg vom Haupt
Oh- Gott!! gewesen! Jesus Christ Nr.!!!

We hope this is helpings.

By Fan die Superhosen
March 08, 2008 @ 7:58 pm

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I'm not surprised you're singing that; it scans beautifully.

Is that Lily Allen in the second-to-last line? I translate that as "I've never been this far away from home".
And the final line is without doubt the end of the Wicker Man; its presence in this lyric is a Heideggerian gesture if I've ever seen one.

Ten points all round!

By 'ney Opera House
March 09, 2008 @ 5:26 pm

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> Rolling Rock apparently plan to project their advert on to the next full moon on March 21st. SNAFU-ed doesn’t seem convinced it’ll work

The moon will be too bright for this to work, and this is fucking obvious as well. The best chance of seeing such a message would be if it was in black material actually stuck to the surface of the moon, but even then the great distance would make the detail impossible to make out.

By Hin'on Ba'tle
March 16, 2008 @ 8:04 pm

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Post your comments to G&T or just fuck off and die.

By Jonathan Capps
March 17, 2008 @ 1:44 am

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This thread has been designated a place to post about Red Dwarf for people who aren't registered to G&T and/or can't be bothered with all the personal politics that being a member of G&T entails. John said the following earlier on in the thread:

"FWIW, yes - if anyone *has* to talk about Dwarf here, then you can use this thread. It's when people keep derailing other threads that I get annoyed."

Since you're reading this, could you let us know what you're thinking of doing a commentary for next? I was thinking you could do an original episode / remastered episode comparison commentary, or maybe a commentary for one of the documentaries?

By Bertrand Russell
March 17, 2008 @ 1:24 pm

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I think there's a difference between talking about Red Dwarf here and actually quoting news stories from G&T and replying to them here. It's just deliberately destructive.

By Jonathan Capps
March 17, 2008 @ 4:56 pm

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> It's just deliberately destructive.

Why do you read it like that? Not everything has the worst possible intentions, you know. There isn't any other option for people who don't want to register at G&T but nevertheless wish to respond to your articles and comments.

By Hin'on Ba'tle
March 17, 2008 @ 5:47 pm

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Oh, so THAT'S what this is about. Fair enough.

By Seb
March 17, 2008 @ 10:36 pm

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I don't really understand why someone would want to discuss G&T things but not sign up for G&T. Registration is quick and simple, and we never use your details for anything - hundreds of people will testify to that. And there's far less politics on G&T than any other forum I've ever been on - just don't be a tit and you'll be fine.

The only reason I can see for not wanting to sign up is that having an account restricts you to only using one name. But then, I can't really see why people want to change their name every other time they post, unless they're a bit of a twat.

By Ian Symes
March 17, 2008 @ 11:51 pm

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> There isn't any other option for people who don't want to register at G&T but nevertheless wish to respond to your articles and comments.

On this subject, could anyone please tell me of a forum owned and run by, but not generally ABOUT, Eamonn Holmes? I have important feedback to give on his his television presenting, but cannot get through the switchboard without giving my name.

By Andrew
March 18, 2008 @ 6:47 am

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Ho!

By Phil Reed
March 18, 2008 @ 12:07 pm

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> we’re all Red Dwarf fans, but are there any comedies that you actually prefer?

Which series of Red Dwarf in particular?

By Simon
March 20, 2008 @ 6:15 pm

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Well it probably is De Ja Vu, it sounds like it.

By Pete Martin
March 20, 2008 @ 8:51 pm

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> Well it probably is De Ja Vu, it sounds like it.

If you want to dance, do it over there!

By Hilarious Quotation Enabler 204
March 23, 2008 @ 10:37 pm

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I'm positive Cappsy's well-pleased that this old article of his has become one of the most popular on the whole site.

By Phil
March 24, 2008 @ 12:07 am

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> I'm positive Cappsy's well-pleased that this old article of his has become one of the most popular on the whole site.

I try to be liked, God knows I try!!!!!

By Hilarious Quotation Enabler 204
March 24, 2008 @ 11:13 am

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> we’re all Red Dwarf fans, but are there any comedies that you actually prefer?

Wouldn't it be quicker to just say all the ones we like less? And like somebody above posted, prefer to which series of Red Dwarf in particular? What specific information do you need?

By A
March 26, 2008 @ 5:19 pm

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LOL. If they'd done "just the deleted scenes", though, they would have more likely used a totally different cover format to the "shows" version, as per the "smegs". I wasn't fooled though, because I'd already read the original amazon review that suggested the joke!

By Neil
April 01, 2008 @ 4:27 pm

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>I'd already read the original amazon review that suggested the joke!

We all did. He was kind enough to paste it here and on G+T as well. In fact, I think he's in negotiations with Rolling Rock to have it displayed on the face of the moon.

By Phil
April 02, 2008 @ 2:02 am

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On G+T they're still going on and on about Red Dwarf all the time. I don't understand. They've done a list of their favourite episodes but it still hasn't laid to rest their need to talk about their favourite moments and characters and so on, over and over again. And if you listen to their commentaries you usually get someone (the one with the squeaky voice) saying "well it's impossible to say why you find something funny without just stating your subjective position" (ie any degree of depth for these people isn't possible) - so the forum stays on superficial observations like "did you notice that Danny John-Jules found Lister saying "out" very funny on the Stasis Leak commentary?"

Also, as far as I can tell, the height of wit on G+T is to show that you can remember Red Dwarf (ie you are a proper fan) by suddenly quoting it randomly. Nobody ever did this on Red Dwarf though, so how does it represent the humour of their favourite programme? Do G+T people think repetitions on Red Dwarf are quotations of previous episodes, like when Kochanski says "I've tried to fit in..."? Or the second time Kryten says "Smee Hee" is to remind people of the Camille episode? I don't understand!

By Confused with G+T
April 07, 2008 @ 4:52 pm

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Confused with G+T is still going on and on about Red Dwarf all the time. I don't understand. He's moaned about the coverage on Ganymede and Titan but it still hasn't laid to rest his need to talk about a programme he doesn't particularly like, the fans and so on, over and over again. And if you listen to this opinions you usually get him (the one who rambles on and on without any real point) saying "I don't get why you like a show that I don't" (ie any sign of irony is lost on this douchebag) - so the continues to witter on making pointless observations about the nature of fandom and superficial observations like "Why do they cover Red Dwarf news on a Red Dwarf fansite?"

Also, as far as I can tell, the height of wit of Confused with G+T is to criticise a website for having the time and dedication to cover a good show in depth and keep alive the fandom that the programme has earned. Confused with G+T is also staggered by the nature of quotes and quoting shows randomly. Does Confused with G+T people think Red Dwarf fans are the only fans who do this or is he just a complete twat. I don't understand!

By Confused with Confused with G+T
April 07, 2008 @ 5:09 pm

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Thanks for attacking me personally. I was stating my naivety; that was the point of my post. You've underlined it, and called me a twat rather than help me into your world; well done. Anybody else care to enlighten me, or is being alienating part of the package with all of you?

By Confused with G+T
April 07, 2008 @ 5:27 pm

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"I've tried to fit in..."

Can't help but feel this quote ripped itself directly from your subconscious and landed in your post.

By Bored of Confused with G+T
April 07, 2008 @ 6:20 pm

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>Thanks for attacking me personally.

You're welcome. Thanks for attacking the readership of a great website personally.

>I was stating my naivety; that was the point of my post.

For "Naivety" let us read "Attempting to antagonize people connected to this website".

>You've underlined it, and called me a twat rather than help me into your world; well done.

What would be the point of helping you into "our world"? You don't like Red Dwarf. End of.

>Anybody else care to enlighten me, or is being alienating part of the package with all of you?

Quite why anyone on here should take time to explain the nature of fandom to you is beyond me.

>Also, as far as I can tell, the height of wit on G+T is to show that you can remember Red Dwarf (ie you are a proper fan) by suddenly quoting it randomly. Nobody ever did this on Red Dwarf though, so how does it represent the humour of their favourite programme?

Yeah, you're right. Quoting a programme shows a complete lack of understanding of the humour of the show. Oh wait, it doesn't.

By Confused with Confused with G+T
April 07, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

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I'm actually impressed with how *little* of the conversation at G+T is quote-recitation. Outside of news articles you don't really get much of it...and even within the news articles you're as likely to find a quote from Alan Partridge or something.

I don't mean to belittle your attempted bashing of the G+T crew--it's impressive and I'm sure your parents are very proud. But it's amusing that you'd choose, out of everything you could potentially take issue with, something that really doesn't happen nearly as frequently as it does on other fan sites.

By Phil Reed
April 07, 2008 @ 11:11 pm

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> "I've tried to fit in..." Can't help but feel this quote ripped itself directly from your subconscious and landed in your post.

Not sure that this is much of a startling revelation when I actually asked to be helped into your world. However if you think it's driven by anxiety of wanting to "fit in" you're wrong. As amateur psychoanalyst you'll probably already know that your comment says more about you than it does me anyway, so I'll leave it at that.

> Yeah, you're right. Quoting a programme shows a complete lack of understanding of the humour of the show. Oh wait, it doesn't.

But, I mean: the Remastered version of the show, for example, contains mostly the same performances from the cast as the original version. It should, by its very nature, make you laugh because it has the cast saying the lines that you laugh at when you see them written down by members of the fan community. However it doesn't make you laugh - it makes you furious. You must understand that this is confusing for somebody who's being told to accept that somebody typing "smee hee" or "smeg" is being absolutely hilarious.

> time and dedication to cover a good show in depth and keep alive the fandom that the programme has earned

My original post was clearly arguing that you go around and around in circles and in fact don't go in depth! Let's just call this a disagreement of what "depth" means. By the way I think "Look and Read" has earned a bit of fandom - could you at least turn your attention to that for a while? It's surely earned it? You might get The Boy From Space a DVD release if you do.

By Confused with G+T
April 13, 2008 @ 7:00 pm

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Why don't you just tell us who you are or just piss off? No one here is obliged to deal with a nameless poster who's sole purpose seems to be to stir and cause disruption.

We obviously should know you, so who are you?

By Jonathan Capps
April 14, 2008 @ 12:05 am

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>But, I mean: the Remastered version of the show, for example, contains mostly the same performances from the cast as the original version.

Yup

> It should, by its very nature, make you laugh because it has the cast saying the lines that you laugh at when you see them written down by members of the fan community. However it doesn't make you laugh - it makes you furious.

No. To the best of my knowledge, no one on Ganymede and Titan has ever criticised the writing of a Remastered Episode. Why would they? Their problems with the Remasterings are usually due to the cuts made and the replacements of model shots. If they were given the choice, most would prefer to watch the Original version as they do not contain edits that distract them. However, faced with the choice of watching Red Dwarf Remastered or a lesser show, I'm sure the majority would watch Remastered anytime.

>My original post was clearly arguing that you go around and around in circles and in fact don't go in depth!

Oh, there was a point to the original post? I just assumed you were ranting and attempting to insult people who work on both this website and G+T. Shocker. I don't write for Ganymede and Titan but I visit it regularly. To suggest that it doesn't go into depth is ridiculous. It's frequently updated and contains plenty of articles that dissect aspects of the show. No, it doesn't contain character bio's or tons of pictures, because there are plenty of AWFUL sites that cater for that kind of need.

But why is this a big issue for you? Why do YOU require a Red Dwarf site that has depth. You haven't actually claimed you like the show.

>You must understand that this is confusing for somebody who's being told to accept that somebody typing "smee hee" or "smeg" is being absolutely hilarious.

There are a few exceptions, but I think the clientele of G+T is far beyond saying the word "Smeg" and expecting a laugh. The show is quoted (which should surprise absolutely no one) but it's normally within context. The phrase "smee hee" is not inherently funny, so your confusion is brought upon by your naivety.

You really haven't looked at G+T closely have you? But why should you? You don't seem to like the programme. And yet you persist in trolling. I wonder why you do.

By Exasperated with Confused with G+T
April 14, 2008 @ 10:35 am

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> And yet you persist in trolling. I wonder why you do.

All this tells me is that the show is so embedded in your subconscious that you keep finding the rhythms of certain lines bubbling up into your normal everyday speech. Maybe I'm beginning to understand what the quotation thing is a bit more now; thanks. By the way if you also didn't like Red Dwarf I would understand why you made that Inquisitor/Kryten parallel between us. You'd be questioning the position I'd taken from a shared moral ground. As it is, the semi-quote is meaningless and you might just as well have typed "we're a real Mickey Mouse operation aren't we!!!!!"

> No one here is obliged to deal with a nameless poster

Yep, that's Cappsy alright! Could tell that without checking! I've been going by the name "Confused with G+T" since starting this effort - can't you read? Not everybody wants a google search on their name to lead to a television forum - don't take this as a personal affront but I'm not exactly proud to be here. I'm just trying to understand a few basic things about how you can buzz endlessly around a single unchanging subject for years and years, and then you'll never hear from me again.

By Confused with G+T
April 14, 2008 @ 5:09 pm

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> how you can buzz endlessly around a single unchanging subject for years and years, and then you'll never hear from me again.

Well, I'd say that NTS was created specifically to deal with the fact that we're not content to "buzz endlessly around a single unchanging subject for years and years". It's just the Red Dwarf and its fandom lends it self very well to a site like G&T, and the show just flicks that particular switch in people.

> I've been going by the name "Confused with G+T"

It's funny, because there's been a great deal of similar comments that have been made by people under different names both here and over on G&T. Quite a coincidence, huh?

By Jonathan Capps
April 14, 2008 @ 5:34 pm

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> It's funny, because there's been a great deal of similar comments that have been made by people under different names both here and over on G&T. Quite a coincidence, huh?

Go on then. Ban those people who are registered at G+T to prove you're correct.

By Confused with G+T
April 14, 2008 @ 5:44 pm

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>All this tells me is that the show is so embedded in your subconscious that you keep finding the rhythms of certain lines bubbling up into your normal everyday speech.

The quote was used deliberately (and within a relevant context) due to my complete confusion at your attitude. It was actually intended as an in-joke to other RD fans. Quoting, as I've already stated, is just part of a fan community. Furthermore, I've stated that G+T readers tend to use quotes in context.

Either way, you picked up on a fairly obscure quote and have then dissected it in far too much detail... revealing that you must like Red Dwarf rather a lot. Your issues with G+T are presumably nothing whatsoever to do with the programme or the coverage of the programme on the site. More likely down to you being banned, shown in a poor light (little wonder) or leaving in disgrace.

>I'm just trying to understand a few basic things about how you can buzz endlessly around a single unchanging subject for years and years...

Hang on... so first you attack G+T for not analysing Red Dwarf in depth...now, you're complaining that they haven't changed the focus of the site onto Hyperdrive or whatever?...Interesting.

Anyway. We enjoy discussing Red Dwarf. So we do. And will continue to do because the show is broad enough to invite discussion. The End. (Or is it The Beginning?)

>and then you'll never hear from me again.

We can only dream.

By Exasperated with Confused with G+T
April 14, 2008 @ 5:49 pm

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> Go on then. Ban those people who are registered at G+T to prove you're correct.

a) I was referring to unregistered comments both here and on G&T before we made it user only
b) We've never banned a user from G&T. People have left, some with grievances, but we've never banned anyone.

By Jonathan Capps
April 14, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

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I miss Trouser Pig.

By Phil
April 14, 2008 @ 8:10 pm

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> It was actually intended as an in-joke to other RD fans. Quoting, as I've already stated, is just part of a fan community. Furthermore, I've stated that G+T readers tend to use quotes in context.

You didn't use it in context. You just changed the words of a Red Dwarf quote to make it relevant to your point.

> Either way, you picked up on a fairly obscure quote and have then dissected it in far too much detail...

Not too much detail. The kind of detail that I would expect somebody to take for granted if they're going to spend years discussing a single set of 52 episodes.

> Hang on... so first you attack G+T for not analysing Red Dwarf in depth...now, you're complaining that they haven't changed the focus of the site onto Hyperdrive or whatever?...Interesting.

Nope. I'm asking how something can keep you interested if it doesn't evolve. If you're getting exasperated with the repetition of this thread then you might apply the same technique to your responses here - ie, stop trying to prove I'm being contradictory when I'm not, and you might get our discussion moving forward a bit. Try answering my initial questions, for example.

> The End. (Or is it The Beginning?)

AHA! Did you spot that? Everybody LOLing out there?

> a) I was referring to unregistered comments both here and on G&T before we made it user only

So several years ago you encountered something a bit similar to what I'm saying. This is the position you're pursuing here? Astonishing.

By Confused with G+T
April 15, 2008 @ 6:02 pm

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>You didn't use it in context. You just changed the words of a Red Dwarf quote to make it relevant to your point.

Er, no.. "I wonder why you do" is taken verbatim from The Inquisitor. Kryten is confused as to why The Inquisitor has a certain outlook on life. Ditto for me. You seem annoyed that people take pleasure in something and are whinging about it in a place that they're likely to visit. I'm perplexed why this bothers you one iota.

>Nope. I'm asking how something can keep you interested if it doesn't evolve. If you're getting exasperated with the repetition of this thread then you might apply the same technique to your responses here - ie, stop trying to prove I'm being contradictory when I'm not, and you might get our discussion moving forward a bit.

OK HERE WE GO....(this isn't particularly complicated but please pay attention)

Just because something is not continuing, doesn't mean it can't be discussed at length or in depth on a specific website catering for a large group of people interested in discussing various aspects. Take any world event, any decent Movie, TV programme or piece of music and, if people find it important, they will want to discuss it again and again NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT ANNOYS CERTAIN PEOPLE.

So, here's my questions.

Firstly, why are you specifically asking this question of Red Dwarf and G+T if, as stated above, this is not something that's even remotely limited to Red Dwarf and G+T?

Secondly, why are you asking this question on Noise to Signal if it's not for any other reason than to insult people who also work on its sister site?

>AHA! Did you spot that? Everybody LOLing out there?

Yeah, it was clever wasn't it? Sadly I think I'm the only one still patient enough to listen to you witter on so it was a wasted on an audience of one. Strangely enough that audience of one is a Red Dwarf fan, but doesn't seem to like being one. Or like anyone else being one.

By Amazed that Confused with G+T is Waffling On
April 15, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

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Red Dwarf, heh, those were the days. I gather some fans are fighting for it to get a new series, which I think is a bit much, but I certainly liked Dwarf when I was its target age.

By J Clark
April 24, 2008 @ 2:51 am

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Do you see! It's funny because of the passive-aggressive implication that the show is made for children! Can't you understand?! It's little short of genius!

It really fucking surprises me that you can't fit in with people. Seriously.

Christ, why not just post about how much daddy didn't love you and have done with it?

By Bored of Confused with G+T
April 24, 2008 @ 3:43 pm

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Who are you talking to?

By J Clark
April 24, 2008 @ 4:53 pm

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Hysterical.

By Bored of Confused with G+T
April 25, 2008 @ 2:15 pm

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Yes you sound it, to be honest. I didn't see the sign at the start of the thread saying "beware of the dog".

By J Clark
April 25, 2008 @ 2:44 pm

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> Hysterical.

J Clark isn't 'Confused with G+T'.

By Jonathan Capps
April 25, 2008 @ 10:09 pm

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There are new Red Dwarf specials being planned for next year - details are vague at the moment but filming is apparently due in October this year, with television broadcast and a DVD release planned for 2009.

Should be quite exciting news for some people, although it appears like it will be more a “celebration” of something that is historically suspended in a time capsule. I wonder whether they’ll bother with the cliffhanger from series VIII that nobody really cares about. It’s been ten years so perhaps it’s best if they just plonk us into a new scenario, and allow us to accept that things have moved on by a few years and we’re straight into some new action. With all the in-between failed movie stuff, perhaps it’d be funny for them to be referring to the events of it, as if indeed it did happen, but in a different dimension to us. They could always fill in the gaps later if they get the funding!

By J Clark
August 29, 2008 @ 11:23 am

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